On last week's show, we aired 25 minutes of a conversation I had with legendary reporter Seymour Hirsch.

I promised that we'd also release a longer version, and here it is.

Cy Hirsch is famous for consequential scoops, from exposing the massacre of Vietnamese civilians in Milai to CIA surveillance, to the torture of Iraqis in Abu Ghraib.

Most recently, he's the author of Reporter, a memoir.

He's also a twin, and once when asked by the parents of twins what it's like to be one, he replied,

It's great. I won.

No. No, I have twin sisters, too.

He's a physicist from UC, California, but he's got a specialty in wave theory.

And here's the story about America.

There was a program called, you got a second?

Sure.

Deep Sea Submergence Program was run out of Hawaii undercover.

It was one of the biggest secret programs in the government.

The guy named John Craven would get people who knew wave theory, noise underwater, my brother's expertise,

and monitor Russian submarines.

So a new submarine would come out, and we'd pick up the sound of the engine.

And there were people that would translate this to know where every Russian submarine,

particularly the boomers, the one with nuclear weapons, were at any time.

My brother was brought into that program to help him.

And in the 70s when he got in, I was writing into that program to help him.

And in the 70s, when he got in, I was writing about the program and exposing all the stupid things they were doing.

And he said, about 1990 or so, you know, he said, I was in a very secret program.

...