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This is Design Matters with Debbie Millman from Design Observer.com.

For 12 years now, Debbie Milman has been talking with designers and other creative types about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about.

On this podcast, Debbie Millman talks with Seth Godin about how to live

in our difficult political moment. What we have to figure out is how to disconnect ourselves

from the circle of fear and from the circle of contempt and even panic and make something that

matters instead. Here's Debbie Milman. In the world of marketing, Seth Godin is an established and savvy master.

If you type Seth into Google, for example, the top result is his blog.

If you search for Seth Godin on Amazon, his 18 books pop up, all of which have been bestsellers. He's much more than a

marketer, though. He writes trenchantly about work, career, and personal growth. Some of his

titles are tribes, we need you to lead us, and Lynchpin, are you indispensable? He's here to

talk about his career and his brand new book. What does it sound like when you change your mind? Seth, Godin, welcome to Design Matters.

Thank you, my friend. Thanks for having me. Seth, this is our fourth interview together. My first interview with you was actually on Design Matters. You came on the show when it was an infant back in 2007. I think that one was on vinyl.

Yes, indeed. I know it was actually an A-track. Believe it or not, I didn't really ask you much about your origins. So I'd like to ask you just a few questions about your

...