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Hello and welcome to Slate's serial spoiler special.

I'm Slate's senior editor Gabriel Roth.

Joining me from our DC studio is Slate's

words correspondent Katie Waldman. Hi Katie. Hi, Gabe. Every week, Katie and I and our guests will be

discussing season two of the popular podcast serial going deeper into the show's themes, exploring

its characters and situations, and looking at the ways in which it reverberates in the world.

This week, we're joined by New York Magazine editor-at-large Carl Swanson, who recently wrote an extensive piece on the making of Serial's second season, with exclusive access to Sarah Koenig and many of the other creators and producers of the show. Carl, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So, Katie, tell us us how did you, what did you come away from this episode feeling?

Well, there's a lot of torture. There are a lot of kind of eviscerating details, such as when Boe recalls being mutilated on his chest.

Bo says a man would come into the room. He never saw his face because either Bo would be blindfolded or the guy's face was covered with a cloth.

Bo would be handcuffed, sitting cross-legged on the floor.

Bo says the guy would pin his legs down, push him against a wall, and then cut his chest with a razor blade.

Don't think one or two cuts at a time.

Think, like, probably between 60 to 70 cuts at a time.

Oh my God. Yeah. You know, I think I came away with a strong feeling that he has suffered enough

and should not go back to jail. I'm sure that new episodes that plunge into how difficult it was to search for him

...