Serial Killers and Pen Pals: A Conversation with Forensic Psychologist Jeff Smalldon on His Correspondences with Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and More
Murder Sheet
MurderSheet
3.8 • 2.8K Ratings
🗓️ 2 December 2025
⏱️ 75 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon has corresponded with some of the most infamous killers in United States history.
That habit started long before he became a distinguished forensic psychologist, an expert on what makes killers tick.
In his new book, That Beast Was Not Me: One Forensic Psychologist, Five Decades of Conversations with Killers, Jeff delves into his correspondence with infamous killers and figures like Charles Manson, Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and more.
Get Jeff's book That Beast Was Not Me here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/that-beast-was-not-me-one-forensic-psychologist-five-decades-of-conversations-with-killers-jeffrey-l-smalldon/a4e8236eb8ace300?ean=9798986512488&next=t
Or here, on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/That-Beast-Was-Not-Conversations-ebook/dp/B0D6WPF17H
Check out Jeffrey Smalldon's email and newsletter here: https://jeffreysmalldon.com/
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Transcript
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| 1:35.2 | I'm Anya, and we're going to talk with a forensic psychologist who's essentially been pen pals with so many infamous murders since he was a college student. |
| 1:43.7 | Content warning. |
| 1:45.0 | This episode contains discussion of violence, rape, and murder, including the rape and |
| 1:50.6 | murder of children. |
| 1:52.1 | It also contains some profanity. |
... |
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