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The Interview

Sergey Karaganov: Is Putin placing bets he cannot win?

The Interview

BBC

News, Government, Politics

4.3537 Ratings

🗓️ 3 February 2023

⏱️ 23 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Stephen Sackur speaks to the Russian foreign policy strategist and sometime Kremlin adviser Sergey Karaganov. Russia is widely expected to launch a major new offensive in Ukraine very soon, but this war has already exposed Moscow’s vulnerabilities. Is Putin placing bets he cannot win?

Transcript

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0:00.0

Welcome to Hard Talk on the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sacker.

0:04.6

My guest today has been one of Russia's most influential foreign policy analysts and strategists for more than four decades.

0:12.2

Sergei Karaghanov began his academic and think tank career in the Soviet era.

0:17.1

He became a key advisor to Boris Yeltsin and maintained an inside track to the Kremlin when the

0:23.3

Putin era began at the beginning of this century. He's always been a nationalist and a security

0:29.3

hawk. The so-called Karaganov doctrine formulated in 1992 highlighted the need for Russia to

0:36.2

nurture and defend the Russian populations living beyond Russia's

0:40.9

post-Soviet borders, in the Baltic states, for example, and most particularly in Ukraine.

0:47.1

To that extent, his ideas have had a role to play in the conflict now seen in Ukraine.

0:53.7

Vladimir Putin used the need to protect Russian speakers

0:57.2

in eastern and southern Ukraine from what he claimed to be genocidal oppression by a Nazi regime

1:03.2

in Kiev as a key justification of his all-out invasion last February. Now that claim was unfounded and today almost one year into the

1:12.9

war it has largely been superseded by another Russian claim that theirs is a defensive war against

1:19.7

a NATO plan to weaken and destroy Russia by way of relentless militarization of the former

1:26.4

Soviet space in Eastern Europe.

1:29.0

Whatever the justification Putin has, his fateful decision to invade has clearly not gone

1:35.6

according to plan. Ukraine's resistance has been fierce and effective. NATO and other allies

1:41.2

are sending ever more powerful weapons to aid Ukraine's war effort.

1:45.8

Both sides now portray this to be an existential fight which they simply have to win.

1:51.9

That would appear to be self-evidently true for Ukraine on whose soil the war is being fought.

1:57.2

Is it really true for Russia?

1:59.5

Well, I'm joined from Moscow by Sergei Karaganov.

...

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