I'm Alexandra Raggi, and today we're talking about the reputational laundering

that criminals and the kleptocrats accomplish when they're able to stand next to famous people,

and in particular today, musicians and actors, Hillary Swank, Sharon Stone, Nikki Minaj, Mariah Carey, even Beyoncé.

My guest today are Pedro Pisano and Jeffrey Smith.

Pedro is the International Criminal Law and Human Rights Journalism Fellow at the McCain Institute for International Leadership.

Jeffrey is the founding director of Vanguard Africa, a nonprofit organization

launched in 2016 to build and promote democratic solutions for African nations. Thank you both for

joining me. Thank you for having them. Thank you. Pedro, let me start with you. I named a few of the

names that we've seen in headlines, but why don't you start by

explaining what the problem is? What damage does this do? Well, basically, what these singers

don't grasp and actors and actresses don't grasp is the way their image is co-opted to legitimize

and whitewashed brutal regimes.

So, for example, after playing for Gaddafi, Mariah Carey, defended herself by saying that she

was unaware of whom she was booked to perform for, right?

This is always the case in all these examples, but as I've written before in the past,

this goes back forever in history, right?

You have the Medici family who ruled Lawrence ruthlessly for generations,

and they served as Patron's with Nardo da Vinci and Michelangelo.

Hitler was fond of Karajan and Fort Wangler and it was a bitter thing.

Stalin, Shostakovich.

Today's dictators are no different.

And the question we're asking is how

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