Welcome to the Dispatch podcast. I'm Steve Hayes, a little something different today.

This week I had the opportunity to interview Senator Ben Sass, Republican O'Nebraska,

at the Aspen Security Forum here in Washington, DC. We talked about America's role in the

digital revolution and looked at what our choices are as a country. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

We've got a terrific session coming up and it is title rejecting decline,

mapping America's choices in the digital revolution. And we're very lucky to have Senator Ben Sass,

a US Senator from Nebraska, who is particularly equipped for this topic because he's on the intelligence,

judiciary, finance and budget committees. But even more, he was a member of the Selurium Commission,

which is one of the more successful of the various commissions that we have as bipartisan.

And a good chunk of it has been actually enacted in legislation. So it's in that sense a great success.

But he's also been a hero of mine because he is somebody who really does go beyond the

partisan polarization of this country, both by his statements generally. But if you can get this

from the title of his recent bestselling book, them, why we hate each other and how to heal.

We need more senators like that. And we're very lucky to have him being interrogated by Stephen Hayes

in outstanding journalists whose co-founder and editor of the dispatch and former editor-chief

of the weekly standard. So overdue Steve. Great. Thank you, Professor. Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us here today. Senator, let me start sort of level set.

What is digital? Why are we mapping the digital revolution? What is the digital revolution?

And why does it need cartographers? Thanks, Steve. Good to be with you, Professor Nye. Thanks for

that introduction. Kind of good to see you. I think I'm a historian by training and usually there's

more continuity than discontinuity in the world. Usually historians job as to be boring at a party

and say you think everything's changing. We're in some massive inflection point in human history.

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