Hi, I'm Willow Belden and you're listening to Out There, the podcast that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors.

If you're anything like me, you spend a lot of time thinking about the future, about where you want to end up,

what you want to accomplish. And that tendency to look ahead can be a really good thing. It

motivates us to do things and make good use of our time. But what happens if you realize

the quest to achieve has actually been holding you back.

On this episode, producer Noam Osband shares the story of something surprising that happened

while he was researching his PhD dissertation.

It's a story that takes us from the hills of Arkansas to the forests of Canada,

and it shows what happens when you're willing to take your gaze away from your goal.

The I know it sounds weird to celebrate finishing a PhD by spending seven weeks in a swampy Ontario forest, planting thousands of trees

a day, covered in bug bites, pissing into a jar. I mean, I think that's paradise, but it's

not an obvious paradise. Well, at least it wasn't for me. My story starts 972 miles and three decades

away in Brookline, Massachusetts. It's a posh Boston suburb, the birthplace of President John

F. Kennedy. Nice lawns, Low crime. The working parents I knew

were mostly professionals. Whenever a kid got injured at the basketball games in my Jewish private

school, multiple doctors would jump out from the bleachers to offer help. The school's sports

teams were literally called the MCATs, a pun on the med school entrance exam.

The only real kind of achievement was overachievement. As early as fourth grade, I'm stressing in my diary about getting into Harvard.

And I went there, as did 10% of my graduating class.

After finishing undergrad, I told people, I'm going to go back to grad school.

I just don't know what for.

This mindset, this need to achieve, it is so deeply ingrained within me. And it spills over into other

...