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Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Seeing Nonviolently with Rev. John Dear

Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Center for Action and Contemplation

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.8748 Ratings

🗓️ 5 June 2025

⏱️ 55 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What would change if you believed that active, creative non-violence was the deepest expression of love? In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher welcome legendary peace activist, Catholic priest, and author Fr. John Dear for an unflinching conversation about the cost—and the healing power—of universal non-violence. Together they explore how language shapes our discipleship, what it feels like to be seen with unconditional love, and why “live and stop the killing” may be the clearest way to describe love in action. Resources: Find out more about Fr. John Dear here. Find out more The Beatitudes Center for the Nonviolent Jesus: here. The transcript for this episode can be found here. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0

You're listening to a podcast by the Center for Action and Contemplation.

0:04.0

To learn more, visit cac.org.

0:10.7

Hi, everyone. I'm Brian McLaren. Welcome to this episode of Learning How to See.

0:16.8

I spent much of my life in the Washington, D.C. area. I grew up there. I raised my children there.

0:23.4

I taught at area colleges and universities there. I served as a pastor in a D.C. area church.

0:30.2

When you live in Washington, D.C., you get a lot of visitors who want to see the city.

0:36.5

And so I got used to leading visitors on tours.

0:40.3

We'd have many stops on the tours that I would lead,

0:43.3

but I'll just mention three of them.

0:46.3

Often we would stop at the Holocaust Museum.

0:49.3

Obviously, that's not the kind of place you want to go to often,

0:53.3

but I actually went there many, many times

0:56.0

because I was bringing visitors.

0:59.0

And walking through the Holocaust Museum,

1:02.0

you can't help but ponder war

1:05.0

and the brutality that human beings are capable of

1:08.0

and the social disease of authoritarianism, against which we must always

1:13.5

be vigilant. Often we would go to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, that V-shaped wall of stark, shiny,

1:23.2

black marble with names that you read, and you read the name you see your own reflection.

1:30.6

I'll never forget taking one friend there, a Vietnam veteran himself.

1:36.4

I remember when he found the name of his close buddy and how he knelt there and wept.

1:43.9

I would often bring people to the FDR Memorial.

...

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