Nick, have you ever noticed that when we talk about the importance of government, the reason why you should care, the way it affects your daily life, we almost always talk about things like intersections and stop signs.

That is kind of true. It's like our own personal civics 101 cliche. And by the way, this is Civics 101. I'm Nick Cappidice.

I'm Hannah McCarthy. And back to this stop sign thing, I think the reason that we use this as an

example for how government affects you is that it is such an everyday thing, right? So quotidian.

And at the same time, it can mean the difference

between a safe, straightforward, not at all annoying drive or walk or bus ride, and a dodgy,

sloggy, extremely annoying drive or walk or bus ride.

Like that specific rage that comes with hitting the same pothole you always hit and

screaming to the skies asking why your town hasn't fixed it yet?

Infrastructure rage is extraordinary.

I, for example, live in the Boston area where the subway system has ruined

everyone's commutes and so basically lives for like 20 years, up until very recently.

I remember once getting lost on some backwoods country road in Vermont and the relief, Hannah,

the utter relief of finding myself on paved, smooth roads after hours of the exact opposite of that.

Bridge closures, detours, train delays, flight delays.

Flight delays!

Fun fact, I partially wrote this episode while experiencing a flight delay, which was funny because the person we're talking about today has actually thought quite a bit about people and planes.

Well, I think a lot of airline passengers find themselves in a situation where they feel like they don't have a lot of power.

You get stuck in an airport, you can't get somebody on the phone, and the airline says, well, too bad, or we'd love to take care of you, but we don't have

another flight for three days, or something else happens, and you feel powerless.

This is the person who is thinking about infrastructure, so ideally, you don't have to.

Sure, I'm Pete Buttigieg. I'm the U.S. Secretary of Transportation.

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