I'm Eric Marcus and this is Making Gay History.

In this episode, you're going to meet another of my heroes whose name has been lost to history.

Herb Selwyn was a knight and shining armor for the fledgling LGBT civil rights movement on the west coast.

He was an attorney from Southern California who had no personal stake in fighting for the rights of gay people.

But he couldn't turn the other way and stood up for LGBT folks during the years when other straight attorneys cashed in on the persecution of gay people and

gay attorneys were too fearful and with good reason to stick their necks

out for a despised minority.

At the time, Herb had no idea how many lives his work would touch

or what his foundational contributions to the early movement would mean to the people he loved best.

When Herb gave me his address in the Studio City neighborhood of Los Angeles,

it sounded familiar, and sure enough he lives around the corner from my friend and fellow author Betty Berzon.

I pull into the driveway of a classic single story flat roofed mid century house with a few palm trees

in the front yard and before I reach the Spanish style double front doors Herb is there to greet me.

Herb's a little guy in glasses who makes me feel very tall and I'm not tall and he makes me feel

welcome. We get set up in Herb's study,

I clip my microphone to his light blue jumpsuit and press record. Interview with Herb Selwyn Thursday, August 24th, 1989, location is Los Angeles, California.

Interviewer is Eric Marcus,

Tape One, Side One.

My parents were not, never homophobic. They explain to me that, you know, some people have different

predilections and others and, you know, the good old story that Socrates said about the people being paired up and

because of the disobedience the gods that scattered them and they're still searching for their

mate you know a woman for a woman a man, a man, a woman for a man,

...