Scaling Laws: AI Copyright Lawsuits with Pam Samuelson

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 19 September 2025

⏱️ 64 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On today's Scaling Laws episode, Lawfare Senior Editor and Research Director Alan Rozenshtein sits down with Pam Samuelson, the Richard M. Sherman Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, to discuss the rapidly evolving legal landscape at the intersection of generative AI and copyright law. They dive into the recent district court rulings in lawsuits brought by authors against AI companies, including Bartz v. Anthropic and Kadrey v. Meta. They explore how different courts are treating the core questions of whether training AI models on copyrighted data is a transformative fair use and whether AI outputs create a “market dilution” effect that harms creators. They also touch on other key cases to watch and the role of the U.S. Copyright Office in shaping the debate.

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