Hey everyone, before we get started, I just want to point to the wake up call that the Donald

Trump CNN town hall was for me and I think so many of us. It was a reminder of who and what

Donald Trump is, why he will never be better, he will always be worse, and why we must do everything

and our power to ensure that he never becomes president again. I'd love it if you go to join the

union.us and sign up to join our growing army of activists around the country. And now on with the show.

Welcome back to the Lincoln Project. On your host, Reed Gaillan. Today, I'm joined by David Pepper,

the former chairman of the Ohio Democratic Party. Before that, he served as a member of the Hamilton

County Ohio Board of Commissioners and as a councilman in the city of Cincinnati. He's written

quite a few books, including his latest, Saving Democracy, a user's manual for every American,

now available wherever fine books are sold. Today, he's coming to us from the Queen City,

Cincinnati, Ohio. David, welcome back. Thanks, great to be with you. So, since your first book came

out, the laboratories of Atocracy, which really detailed and dissected how the Republican party

went through the process in a very efficient and very cost-effective way, took over state

legislatures in so many places at the behest of not only their ideological partners, but also their

business partners. Since that book came out, and now with the idea, and it's basically folks out

there, it's a handbook for what you can do to help preserve democracy. What's been the most

shocking, surprising thing to you in that time? Honestly, I hate to say it that that book sort of

predicted a lot of what we've seen since. I wrote it very quickly, and this is a laboratory's book,

because I thought I was behind, but then as it's come out, and you look at Florida, Tennessee,

Ohio, everything that's happened since is, frankly, what the book says is going to happen. It's once

they've clung to these state houses, once they've eliminated all accountability through

gerrymandering suppression, and then Democrats don't even run in these places. All the breaks are gone,

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