This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

The Michael Berry Show.

Jack Abramoff.

Hello. Hello. How are you?

I'm good. Thanks for being our guest.

It's a pleasure. Thank you.

So, how long were you in jail?

43 months, over three and a half years.

Did you ever expect you'd be in jail?

Of course not. Absolutely not.

What was the worst thing about it?

Being away from my family.

Is jail as broken as the rest of governmental institutions?

Absolutely. It's the leader in broken government institutions.

Does anybody get better from going to jail?

No, it's a storage facility. There's no effort to make them better. I, for one, have always had this opinion. We won't talk about prison the whole time, but I for one have this opinion.

The whole, you know, jokes about rape and prison and that whole thing, is that jail should be

for rehabilitating and punishing, and the whole concept

of rape only makes people worse. But how bad a problem is it?

Well, where I was, it wasn't a problem at all. I was nonviolent prison, but it is a problem

in other prisons. And they try to do stuff about it, but you're dealing with a bunch of very,

you know, very sick guys.

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