Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of MaximumFun.org and is distributed by NPR.

I'm Jesse Thorn, it's Bullseye.

Next up is the Australian actor Sarah Schnuck. Odds are, if you know Sarah, it's for her

role on succession, the latest Zite Geist TV drama on HBO. Sarah plays Shivan Roy, but

to her friends and family, it's just Shiv. Shiv, like what you'd stab somebody in the

back with. Succession follows the Roy family. They own a giant conservative media conglomerate

called Wastar Royco. The family's patriarch Logan Roy is getting older and he can't run

the company forever. So who will he name to take over? And what are they willing to do

to be that person? Or will he just, you know, love the whole thing up out of spite?

Like pretty much every character on succession, Shiv is complicated. She's cunning and fragile,

selfish and vulnerable, principled, but not too principled. Sometimes she sits above the

fray, letting her brother squabble over the family business. Other times she's right

in the middle of the fight. Schnuck has earned an Emmy nomination for her role as Shiv.

She's now up for a golden globe for the same part. Linda Holmes, the wonderful host of

NPR's pop culture happy hour, talked with Sarah in 2020 about what it's like to play

one of the most fascinating, complex and confounding characters on TV today. But before we get

into that, let's listen to a clip from succession. Like I said earlier, Shiv spends most of the

first season kind of above the fray, distancing herself from the company. But then at the

beginning of season two, her dad offers her the top job. Let's listen.

Dad, I don't think so. Really? Because if there's really no hope of you coming in, I'd

rather cash out. Look, this is the way that we're having this conversation

anyway. Yeah, fun. Fine. I'll do it. Right now, I'll tweet the market to move, and

...