It's the Brian Larry Show on WNYC.

Good Monday morning, everyone.

Good June 1st morning again, everyone.

And today starts Pride Month, where we celebrate the LGBTQ

plus community and with diversity in general and the trans community specifically facing such

rollbacks in protection. Many are probably drawn on the inspiration of the early heroes from

Stonewall, people like that, and the first Pride marches

in 1970 or so, that impulse to look past heroes, or look to past heroes for guidance and

support in tough times is very much in keeping with the idea behind my next guest's book,

writer Antonio Pegby Rulo's new book is Queer Saints,

a radical guide to magic, miracles, and modern intercession. You might have heard him on the show

before, making the case for Father Michael Judge to be named a saint. His concept of

sainthood is not quite the same as the Catholic churches. I don't think the church is

about to canonize St. Freddie Mercury, but let's have him explain. Antonio Paglerulo, thanks for coming on.

Again, welcome back to WNYC. Thank you, Brian, for having me. It's a pleasure. So, as we've discussed

before, your introduction to the idea of saints was through Catholicism, where there

are certain specific steps that have to be followed before someone can be considered a saint.

And you do include some recognized Catholic saints in the book, but your conception is much

broader. So in general, in your framework, what makes someone a saint? Well, what makes someone

a saint is you have, saints are generally thought, as you said, to be canonized by the church,

but what makes somebody a saint is they are people who have passed over, but they have done

extraordinary things in this life. They have done

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