Thank you for listening to the Allender Center podcast.

I'm Dr. Dan Allender.

And I'm Rachel Clinton-Centen.

We're fiercely committed to providing hope and healing to a fragmented world.

And restoration for the heart.

Thank you for joining us.

Let's get this conversation started.

Rachel, we're going to move into a topic that I'm not too fond of. I've not been really too fond of this whole series.

And, you know, I mean, you step into rage and, you know, you have to deal with what's coming against you, but also, at least in my case, what I know often comes to the surface.

And then to deal with being a scapegoat or scapegoating.

Again, these are the killers.

This is inevitably going to ruin communities, families,

certainly people's lives.

But as we step into this, it just feels even more difficult

because we're talking about

sabotage.

And sabotage is ultimately the shift of contempt.

Because when we talk about rage, when we talk about needing a scapegoat, we're talking

about the externalization of contempt. But now we're beginning to move into, in some sense, self-contempt.

And in that communion of any form gets ruined just as much, if not more so, through self-contempt.

Yeah, which, you know, when we, through self-contempt.

Yeah, which, you know, when we talk about self-contempt, we're in that playground,

...