You're listening to the Rule of Life podcast by practicing the way.

In each season, we explore an ancient practice from the way of Jesus

and its relevance for the modern era.

This is Season 1, Sabbath.

Hey everyone. Welcome to episode one of season one of the rule of life podcast by practicing the way.

I am John Mark Comer and I'm here with two of my favorite people in the world, Bethany Allen right here.

If you don't know Bethany, she is the pastor for spiritual formation and leadership development at Bridgetown Church in Portland, Oregon, and my longtime

collaborator on all things practicing the way. And Bethany, you have got to be the best pastor.

I know. I say that, and it's not flattery. You are always my go-to, like, help me understand

the church, what people are feeling,

what people are thinking, and your ability to kind of put your finger on the pulse of where

people are at at a pastoral level is such a gift, so really happy to do this with you. And then

I'm also here with Brian Roundsen, who is another dear friend of mine. Brian, you are a pastor at the Garden Church

in Long Beach, California, where it's summer all year long. And you're also in the process of,

just like us, you are starting up a nonprofit called Roots and Embers. That is kind of out in this season.

And, you know, one of the things I love about your work, and I think I share an affinity

for is kind of the way that your work is at the intersection of spiritual formation and psychology.

You know, your dad's a clinical psychologist, right?

And so you've kind of grown up in that world, and I think I resonate with that.

I'm not that, but I feel like in another alternate dimension universe,

I was like a social psychologist, like I want to be Jonathan Haidt or whatever.

So I think we share that kind of.

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