Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of theology in the raw. We got a few events coming up on the LGBTQ conversation. I will be in Plano, Texas, October 7th at the Revoice pre conference and also here in Boise. We're going to have a two day conference on October 20th and 21st.

This is called the Faith Sexuality and Gender Conference. You can come to Boise to be a part of that live or you can register to stream it online. All the information is at centerforfaith.com forward slash events, that centerforfaith.com forward slash events, all the info is in the show notes.

Also, if you would like to support the show, you can go to patreon.com forward slash theology in the raw. Support the show for as little as five bucks a month to get access to the theology in the raw community.

I have on the show today my good friend Caleb Colton back again. I think this is the third time on the show. He was on just a few months ago talking about the quality act this time.

Caleb and I talk about his recently released book Messy Truth, which is kind of a companion book to his first book Messy Grace, which is an absolutely outstanding book.

So I hope you enjoy this conversation. We talk a lot about how to engage LGBTQ people, how to think through the tension of grace and truth, which Caleb says the tension is love. Love is the thing that brings together both grace and truth.

So I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation. Let's welcome back to the show. They won't only Caleb Colton.

All right, hey friends. I'm back here with my good friend Caleb Colton, who is written another awesome book. You might know Caleb by the book Messy Grace, or if you're listening to the podcast, you might remember Caleb and I talked about the quality act a few months ago, which if you're interested in that conversation with highly recommended.

I know the episode number, but I think we did that back in maybe February or March. Caleb wasn't that maybe four or five months ago. But anyway, thanks for being back on the podcast to talk about your latest book Messy Truth.

Thanks for having me, man. I'll be in here.

So I'm going to assume people are aware of your book Messy Grace. I mean, I'll just, I'm a huge fan. If you haven't read Messy Grace and you're interested in the sexuality conversation, which if you're a human living in 2021, you should be interested.

The very least in the sexuality conversation. Caleb's book Messy Grace is absolutely fantastic. So highly recommend it. It's not just informative. It's just hard to put down. I mean, your ability to share stories. You're just you're wording your rhetoric and everything. It's just a really engaging book. But that's Messy Grace and you just came out with a book called Messy Truth.

Let's begin by talking about what, what are the differences? Like why, why the need for Messy Truth? Like what, what kind of void is this feeling? I'm assuming there was something that you felt like you needed to say that you didn't say in Messy Grace.

So tell us how these two books kind of interact with each other.

Yeah, so kind of the bottom line or the main point of Messy Grace is that obviously like everybody says that there is a tension that we feel between grace and truth.

And I make the point that that tension that we feel between grace and truth is love that love is the tension that we feel between grace and truth.

And so I hope like there's a lot of truth and grace in Messy Grace, probably leaning more on the grace side. But then again, one of the points I make in Messy Truth is that love your neighbors just as much truth as when Jesus says don't take revenge, don't kill, don't slap somebody upside the head, that kind of thing.

And so I wrote Messy Grace where it's more about a person's individual relationships, their personal relationships with LGBTQ friends and family. And then I wrote Messy Truth because I felt like I was missing the community aspect of it.

I really really was like, okay, I think people find apologies is better in community, not in isolation. And yet there are so many churches that I work with that you've worked with, I know, and leaders you've talked to with really good, well intention, well meaning people and leaders.

But you know that they're like, man, I don't want to go too far and then like what if we compromise our doctrine and so on and so forth. And I was just motivated by the fact that I wanted to help people have really good conversations, grow in their empathy and stay firm to their convictions.

And because I think that that is a recipe for great community. And it's the book is really oriented towards helping people understand how to get their LGBTQ friends and family connected to a Christ centered redemptive community.

And so I would say that's the difference. One's about personal relationships, the other one is about community.

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