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I'm John Batchez with Josiah Osgoat. His new book is Lawless Republic. The story of Cicero and the first century BCE Roman Republic.

And yet the Republic turned on money. And a man named Varus, Gaius Veras, became governor of Sicily, which was the breadbasket of Rome before they acquired Egypt

in 73 BCE and stole everything he could get his hands on that he regarded as art, everything.

Although you could say he borrowed it and didn't return it. By the time Cicero came to this story, the people of Sicily had had enough

and moved a case against him in the Roman Forum.

The amazing thing to me, Professor, is that Cicero took it on, because Veris is extremely

well connected, not only to all the members of the

Senate in Rome, but to Mattelis, who becomes the governor after Veris. I want to say,

what was Cicero thinking? Where did he think he could go with this? Because he's taking on

billionaires. Yeah, so normally Cicero defended those accused, and of course that was a good way still to win fame, but also earn favors.

And one thing that's sort of interesting about the Roman Republic is prosecution could be regarded as a little bit dirtier almost, right?

Sort of going after people.

It was sometimes said prosecutors were vicious individuals.

So Cicero had been careful to avoid that.

But as he's rising up the ladder, he suddenly decides he's going to take the case.

Now, one reason was Cicero had actually spent a bit of time on the beautiful island of Sicily.

He'd been in government service there, a pretty lowly post, but he'd made some friends on the island.

The other thing to reason he really took the case was the tides and politics were shifting at

...