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That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Hello everyone and welcome to the Focus Group podcast I'm Sarah Longwell publisher of

the bull work and this week we're walking you through the vice

presidential debate and how it did or didn't affect this race. So just a level set

swing voters have generally liked Tim Walls better than JD Vance and the focus groups

we've done the last couple months.

But now I'm interested in how the debate may be changing how people think about these VP candidates.

My guest today is one of the great drafters of presidential

campaign history in recent decades, John Heilman, co-author of the Puck News Podcast in Politic with John Heilman.

John thanks for being here.

Hi, Sarah Longwell, I was so good to see you.

Last time I saw you was at Manne's in real life.

Last time I saw you was yesterday on Deadline White House, but the last time I saw you in face to face was in one of the great culinary institutions of the city with big shoulders, which was very, very fun, especially with all the corn beef around.

They seem like you were like in your elements.

...