Have we exhausted the utility of hope, have we wrung out the last bit of innocence and

the possibility that we could somehow change while remaining the same?

Perhaps there may be a maturing, a reciprocity, and maybe even still wonder, that's available

to us when we leave behind the kind of hoping and efforting we've clung to for so long.

We are coming down to earth.

We will not arrive intact.

These words come from our guest today, Dr. Bio Acama Lafe, he's a professor, a poet,

a philosopher, and he's the author of these wilds beyond our fences.

Bio turns concepts that seem safe on their sides.

He doesn't let us settle in comfortable places.

And when I speak with him the question that I think so many of us hold dear and activism

or organizing, the question of how do we win is temporarily or maybe forever replaced

with the question of how do we live?

I found this conversation so challenging and so invigorating, and I hope that you enjoy

it too.

I was hoping you guys would supply cookies or something, but since we're here, you just

wrote with it.

I was going to start off with this.

Next time, close pandemic.

Okay, let's make it work.

I feel so excited today to be in conversation with Bio Acama Lafe.

Bio, I've been really inspired by your work, really touched by your work, and especially

...