You let them lie to you once. They will just do it all the time. Yeah, I mean, this is like, you know, I'm not a parent, but like, well, I am and this is how I know.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the illegal news, formerly known as the George Gowndway explains at all, podcast, but as we've seen George is running for Congress

in the great bulwark podcasting to politician pipeline. And so we now have the illegal news,

and I am so glad to be joined by the great Andrew Weissman. I'm obviously Sarah Longwell,

publisher of the bulwark.

Andrew, I was so jealous that Sam got to talk to you last week, and so I'm very glad it

is me this week.

We'd originally planned today to talk about the court decision concerning ICE detention

centers that was issued last month.

But before we get to that,

I think we have to address what happened with ICE in Minnesota earlier this week. A masked

ICE agent shot and killed Renee Nicole Good, an unarmed 37-year-old woman and U.S. citizen.

Immediately after the shooting, the president defended the ICE agent saying that the action,

saying the agent acted in self-defense, though videos pretty clearly showed the agent wasn't in harm's way. That is my view of it.

I'll be, you tell me yours, because the victim was attempting to drive away as the ICE agent shot at her multiple times.

So I guess to start, just like what's your take on what happened?

And do you think the ICE agent or anyone will be held accountable for goods death?

You know, it's so interesting, Sarah, because the more I do this and the more I talk to people like you and I'm on air with people

who are sort of not lawyers and trained in criminal law, the more I find myself first reacting

as a human than as a lawyer. Because just leaving a side, we're going to talk about the

legality and I'll sort of walk through that. But I think that

big picture to me is even if, and there's a huge even if, like I mean that because

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