I'm Molly Wansall and I'm Geoffrey Wansel and for the last 16 years or thereabouts we have been having lunch every Saturday and often our conversation turns to murder

and that's what's prompted us to launch this true crime podcast called blood ties.

Welcome back to the blood ties podcast. I'm Molly Wansel and I'm here with my father, Jeffrey Wansel.

As you'll remember from the last record, we're on to the second part of the railway killers.

Yes, welcome back. It's a grim and slightly eerie story, but it is one that always sticks in my memory.

If you've listened to the first part, you'll know that by the end of that, John Duffy, the shorter of the two men, has been convicted of five rapes and two murders.

Yeah.

His accomplice, his partner in crime, David Malkai, is threatening to sue the Metropolitan Police for wrongful arrest because he didn't have anything to do with it and Duffy's gone to jail.

All right. Well, we're just going to jump with it, and Duffy's gone to jail. All right.

Well, we're just going to jump back in, guys.

So this is part two of the railway killers.

Duffy maintains a studious silence throughout his first eight years in prison.

Malkai lives a perfectly ordinary life.

Do you think when they were discussing this kind of thing at any point,

they had a conversation that was like if one of us goes down, we'll never dobb in the other one kind of thing at any point they had a conversation that was like if one of us goes down we'll never dobb in the other one

kind of thing.

I think Duffy was genuinely

terrified of Malkai.

I think he thought that Malkai would

probably kill him if he said

anything even if he was in jail

and it took a very

...