This podcast, it's a Costerton Touchstone production.

A lot of people at the CIA have very elaborate cubicles.

Very few people have private offices.

There was this movement in the 80s and 90s to level the playing field

and make these big open bullpens where you can put hundreds of cubicles and everybody feels equal. Well, some had

very elaborate cubicles and others like me, just had sort of the bare necessities. I had my

Arabic English, English, Arabic dictionary. I had a clock, you know, when you needed a clock.

Of course, even still today, you can't take a cell phone inside the CIA. It's a security violation. My first boss had a couple of interesting quotes hanging over

his desk. They were mostly motivational quotes that really meant nothing to me. But I found a quote

very early in my career. And I actually researched it to make sure that it wasn't apocryphal

because it was so great I wanted to be able to

hang it up and cite it. It turned out to be a true quote and it was by former Egyptian President

Gamal Abdonasur. He said, the thing about you Americans, you never make clear-cut stupid decisions.

You only make complicated stupid decisions, which makes

us wonder if there is something to them which we are missing. And I found that quote to be the

definition of American foreign policy. Our decisions are usually very complicated stupid decisions.

And then we like to congratulate ourselves

and tell ourselves that we're all geniuses.

And that's just not the way it is.

Hi, I'm John Kiroiakur.

Welcome to Dead Drone, What Makes a Spy Tick. This is another episode in our series, What Makes This Spy Tick?

Before we get back to it, I want to thank you, as always, for listening. Thank you also for all your

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