From NBII Studios, this is Truth and Justice, a crowdsourced investigation in real time.

I'm Bob Rock.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Truth and Justice.

For today's episode, as you guys know, throughout this season 16, we've been trying to bring on content creators where we can highlight people that are doing good work in the field.

And also trying to really focus on education for our audience.

And we've been on this kind of tangent over the last several,

about two months now about interrogation techniques. That conversation began with the Richard Allen case and the Delphi murders. And it's led us into further looks into the read

technique and how false confessions happen. And so for this week, I brought on a special guest

somebody we've never heard from before. And I'm going to let him go ahead and introduce himself

and explain all of his credentials. But we're joined today by Professor Alan Hirsch. Mr. Hirsch,

Mr. Hirsch, thanks so much for joining us. My pleasure. So can you tell us a little bit about

yourself and your background? Sure. So I'm an attorney by training. I graduated from Yale law way back when. I won't give you a year and date myself.

Clerked for a judge for a year, spent a few years at a government agency called the Federal Judicial Center, and then sort of stumbled into a career in academia coupled with trial consulting. And for the last 20 years, it's a long

story that I won't bore your listeners with, but I found myself intrigued by and then

involved in and eventually expert in the field of interrogations and false confessions. So I

spend a fair amount of my time writing about that subject

and testifying about that around the country in cases where someone has confessed,

typically a criminal case where they are facing prison time based primarily on a confession

that they have recanted. And my job is to educate the jury and why they might

have confessed even if innocent. Yeah. And that's great because that's right down the line of

for several, we've worked several cases that involve false confessions. And we've talked a lot about

cases where they were proven false confessions. But there's so, there's so many that that happened

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