Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. This is our 14th, 14th season. And we're doing what I like to think of as the opposite of the Ezra Klein approach. We're digging deep and trying to understand the moment that we're in.

Because we're at a really bad time on climate right now and, you know, democracy and justice

and all sorts of other things. And we're only just starting to really understand some of the forces that have worked really

hard to bring us to this moment. So, you know, it's time to do the reading. For me, understanding

the lack of political will to act on climate has always begun with talking to social scientists.

So for this season, I wanted to talk to some of the best, the folks behind an incredible new book from the Climate Social Science Network

at Brown University that pulls together everything we currently know about climate obstruction,

how it's happened all over the world. In the first four episodes of

the season, we looked at how obstruction works. So we looked at PR and media and the psychology

of this stuff. In the next few episodes, we'll focus on who's doing it, which industries are

working the hardest to obstruct climate action?

First up, no surprise, the fossil fuel industry. They're not the only ones doing it, of course,

but they are certainly one of the biggest obstacles to climate action. Joining me today is a voice

that might be familiar to longtime listeners.

Kurt Davies, the investigator who read to us from so many great documents that he'd found

back in season one of the podcast.

Kurt is at the Center for Climate Integrity these days.

We also have Jeff Dembeki, Global Managing Editor of DeSmog, and author of the book, The Petroleum Papers,

and Christopher Eckberg from the University of Lund in Sweden. Let's get into it.

Hi, I'm Kurt Davies.

I am the Director of Special Investigations at the Center for Climate Integrity in Washington, D.C.

Hi, I'm Christopher Ekbeye.

...