We're mixing it up today with a fabulous special guest! The brilliant V.E. Schwab joins us for a far-reaching chat about writing romance outside of romance novels™️, about the difference between obsession and love, about the way we can't help but ship characters who will never get together, and about writing in general...and how we tackle character, conflict, and power in storytelling. We had a great time, and you will, too.

If you want more Fated Mates in your life, please join our Patreon, which comes with an extremely busy and fun Discord community! Join other magnificent firebirds to hang out, talk romance, and be cool together in a private group full of excellent people. Learn more at patreon.com.

Our next read along is Julie Anne Long's What I Did For a Duke, available in print, ebook, and audio at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books or wherever you get your books.

Enter the Macmillan Audio sweepstakes to win one of five free audiobook copies of Emma Lord's The Rival.

The Books

• Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V.E. Schwab
• The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue by V.E. Schwab
• Vicious and Vengeful by V.E. Schwab
• A Darker Shade of Magic by V.E. Schwab
• The Fragile Threads of Power by V.E. Schwab
• This is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone
• The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley
• Babel by RF Kuang
• The Midnight Line by Lee Child
• Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo
• When Among Crows by Veronica Roth 
• A Heart of Blood and Ashes by Milla Vane
• Chaos by Constance Fay
• Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells

The Notes

• Welcome V.E. Schwab to the podcast! You can check out her podcast about writing called No Write Way, and you can click her to sign up for her newsletter. 
• Sarah has a new birdfeeder for her office. 
• You, too, can watch Lee Child playing chess. 
• Philip Larkin wrote a great poem about parents, This Be the Verse.

The Sponsors

• Max Monroe, author of Playing Games, available in print or ebook from Amazon.
• Adriana Herrera, author of A Tropical Rebel Gets the Duke, available in print or ebook from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple Books or wherever you get your books.
• Macmilllan Audio, publishers of The Rival by Emma Lord, read by Jesse Vilinsky, available from Audible, Kobo, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Libro.fm or wherever you get your audiobooks. Enter the Macmillan Audio sweepstakes to win one of five free copies of this audiobook.
• Allison A. Andrews, author of The Winning Ticket, available in print or ebook from Amazon, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited.

00:00 Bantr

07:54 Welcome VE Schwab

15:15 AD: THE WINNING TICKET

21:37 Writing Relationship

32:29 The Marketing Problem

34:24 AD: THE RIVAL

44:47 Characters and Genres Evolve

49:10 AD: PLAYING GAMES

57:35 Judgement & Labels

1:03:56 AD: A TROPICAL REBEL GETS THE DUKE

1:12:32 The Minions Complex

1:20:02 Recommendations

1:31:25 Outro

1:33:44 AD: THE RIVAL