Russia's war with Ukraine — and reality

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 28 February 2022

⏱️ 36 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sean Illing talks with journalist, author, and Russian disinformation scholar Peter Pomerantsev about the invasion of Ukraine. Recorded on Friday, Feb. 25th, they discuss the current state of the conflict, whether or not the warped rationales for Putin's invasion are actually convincing to the Russian people, and what sanctions might possibly make a lasting difference for the future of both Russia and Ukraine. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox Guest: Peter Pomerantsev (@peterpomeranzev), author; Senior Fellow, Agora Institute, Johns Hopkins University References: This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality by Peter Pomerantsev (Public Affairs; 2019) Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible: The Surreal Heart of the New Russia by Peter Pomerantsev (Public Affairs; 2014) "Vladimir Putin: What's going on inside his head?" by Peter Pomerantsev (The Guardian; Feb. 26) "The Russian roots of our misinformation problem" by Sean Illing, in conversation with Peter Pomerantsev (Vox; Oct. 26, 2020) Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app. Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by: Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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1:00.0	How did Putin sell the war in Ukraine to his own people? Or did he sell it at all?
1:09.4	I'm Sean Elling and I'm your host for Vox Conversations.
1:13.8	To the outside world, Putin's decision to launch an unprovoked war doesn't make a ton
1:29.3	of strategic sense. It will be costly, protracted and ruinous to the Russian economy. And potentially
1:37.1	tens of thousands of people will die. Putin has his own warped rationales. He believes
1:44.6	that Ukraine is an illegitimate country and that its mere existence is in a front to Russia.
1:50.9	And he's constantly spinning a twisted historical narrative to justify his aggression towards
1:56.9	Ukraine. But how does all of this look through the eyes of the average Russian citizen? After
2:04.0	all, they will suffer as much as anyone. So why would they support a completely unnecessary
2:10.4	war? Well, if you are an average Russian citizen, it may not look so unnecessary. You might
2:20.2	believe that Ukraine is trying to exterminate the Russian population in its east, or that
	...

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