If you look at the history of declining powers, what sometimes happens is they find themselves with less and less of an interest in maintaining the status quo order in their region or in the world because they just have less of a stake in it every year.

They've got less to lose than they had

the year before and so they become more and more risk tolerant, more willing to shake

things up, more willing to take on risk than a status quo power like the United States.

And so for as much as we say, oh my God, China's

a rising power and therefore is more dangerous.

That's true.

But it may also be true that Russia is increasingly dangerous and acts more risky precisely because it's a declining power. Russia poses a threat to Ukraine again, but what about Russia's threat to the unity of Europe?

What does all this say about the global perception of America's strength?

Is Russia declining power or is Russia on the march?

Could it be both?

We asked smart and savvy foreign policy insider Richard Fontaine to help us think things

through.

This is call Me Back. And I'm pleased to welcome my friend

Richard Fontaine to the Call Me Back podcast. Hey Richard. How you doing?

I'm all right.

Just for our listeners.

Before Richard joined the Center for New American Security,

he had a long experience in the US government

in a range of national security positions.

He worked in the State Department and on the National Security Council of the Bush administration.

He worked on Capitol Hill as the Deputy Staff director of the Senate Armed Services Committee, which is one of the most important committees on Capitol Hill in terms of congressional national security, national defense, foreign policy making, and he traveled all over the world

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