Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive

for rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The program was originally broadcast in 1995,

and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

My costume this week is a politician. She was born and brought up in Norfolk, a county which has

remained at the centre of her life. Her schoolteachers predicted great things for her,

but although she went to Oxford, she remained in local government, professionally and politically,

until her late 40s. And then, in 1987, she entered Parliament for a Norfolk seat,

and she since enjoyed the most rapid rise to prominence of any member of the cabinet.

Within five years, she was Secretary of State for Employment. A year later, she was at agriculture.

Last year, she moved to education, and this year, she was rewarded with the combined role of

Secretary of State for Education and Employment. She is Gillian Sheppard. So you were a late starter,

Mrs Sheppard. Was it always your intention to reach high places, or did you surprise yourself?

I suppose that secretly, it was my intention to try to rise as high as I could,

but I'm not certain that I ever really admitted it to myself. And it is also the case that I've

enjoyed everything that I've done, whether it was as a career's adviser in Norfolk, whether it was

looking after village halls and playing fields. You've had it all for a lot of journeys,

but 40 jobs, I think, in your CV. I think, perhaps not quite as many as that, but certainly a large

number of jobs. And you know, what they've all had in common is I've learned a lot from them,

and I've enjoyed them all. What they all had in common as well is that you were in charge,

didn't they? I think whether you were a head girl at school or chairman of the Norfolk Health

Authority, you were running something. I suppose that's true, yes, and I do enjoy running things,

organizing things, planning policy, looking ahead, and getting people to work in a team.

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