RSR559 - Pat Sansone - Playing and Songwriting with Wilco, Autumn Defense, and Big Star Quintet.
Recording Studio Rockstars
Lij Shaw
4.8 • 543 Ratings
🗓️ 22 May 2026
⏱️ 135 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Why does the rough mix always feel like the real song - and how the hell do you get that magic back without ruining it?
In this episode, Pat Sansone and I go deep into the lifelong puzzle of mixing: why the first tracking rough has all the energy, how chasing it can make you crazy, and why mixing is really more like photography than engineering. Pat walks through how his visual art - Polaroids, slide film, CMYK vs RGB, Lambda printing - has taught him to trust instinct, appreciate imperfections, and approach mixes like developing a print rather than fixing a file. We talk about turning the screen off while playing a mix, the weird phenomenon of hearing a song differently once another person walks into the room, and why limitations make better records.
We also dive into Pat’s history with The Autumn Defense, Wilco, and the Big Star universe. Pat shares memories of making The Green Hour and Circles at my house - dragging the JH-16 up the stairs, tracking G-Whiz in the basement, and writing “The Answer” face-to-face with John Stirratt twenty feet from where we sat for this interview. He explains how the new Autumn Defense record Here and Nowhere came together after an eleven-year break, why Creative Workshop became the perfect studio for it, how Teddy Morgan helped capture tones, and why he still records acoustic and vocal together whenever possible. We get into gear, mic choices (KM84s, SM58s, Sony lavs), the struggle of acoustic/vocal bleed, and the random chaos of synths, plugins, and sessions that don’t open right years later.
Pat also talks about his photography book Noticing, his Infinity Mirrors ambient synth album, and how wandering with a camera unlocked the same creative freedom he felt as a teenager with a Korg Poly-6. He explains how Nashville re-energized his creative life - from running into Robyn Hitchcock in the cereal aisle at Turnip Truck to singing ooohs at Brendan Benson’s studio the next day. We share memories of New Orleans, Chicago, analog tape, Pro Tools Mix+, transferring Birdy on the Moon tracks, losing Josh Shapera, and the role Creative Workshop played in Pat’s “Nashville phase two.”
By the end, we’re talking Big Star, Eggleston photographs, orchestral arrangements, radio DJing, and why slide film and tube mics scratch the same itch. It’s a wide-open conversation about creativity, sound, light, limitations, mistakes, rough mixes, and how to stay inspired for a lifetime.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This episode of RSR is brought to you by isotope, native instruments, S-A-E-E- Institute, Spectra-1964, and Grace Design. |
| 0:12.5 | These are tools that I use every day in my studio from the Spectra-1964, STX-600-100-100-D, and native instruments complete 15, to isotope ozone and RX, and the central hub for my studio, the Grace Design M701 audio interface. |
| 0:33.8 | Follow the sponsor links in the show notes. |
| 0:36.5 | Grab my free mixing course at mixmasterbundle.com, |
| 0:40.4 | and remember to like this video and subscribe on YouTube because it's a great way to help |
| 0:45.5 | support this show. Now, get ready to rock. If you come to a big star quintet show, you already |
| 0:53.0 | love the music. |
| 0:54.8 | The music is already a part of your life. |
| 0:57.4 | You know, it's been a part of your life for a long time. |
| 1:00.0 | Every song's a hit. |
| 1:01.2 | So, yeah, you already have this deep connection just to the music. |
| 1:05.5 | And, you know, I mean, the original big star band only did like 12 shows. |
| 1:13.6 | Amazing. |
| 1:14.6 | You know, they didn't tour. |
| 1:16.6 | You guys have already done more? |
| 1:17.6 | We've done more shows than the original line, you know, the classic big star lineup did. |
| 1:23.6 | So, just to like be in the room with people that love the music as much as we do, |
| 1:30.3 | there's an amazing transfer of energy that's going on. |
| 1:35.3 | Oh yeah, man, I remember. |
| 1:36.3 | And I was out of your face. |
| 1:38.3 | I remember you were smiling just like a thousand-washed smiles, and that's amazing. |
| 1:44.7 | Yeah. |
... |
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