Bankless Nation, I'm joined by Amanda Tumenelli and Jake Chervinsky, two of my favorite lawyers in the crypto space.

And I'll say individually, they are both great. But really when you bring them together, there is a greater than the sum of the parts moment.

I think when you guys come together on the podcast, because you guys have just worked together for so long. Amanda, Jake,

welcome back to Bankless. Awesome. Back. Thanks for having me. Okay, so we are, of course, on the heels

of the Roman storm fallout, which we thought was going to be end of the story. It seems that we are

actually in the middle of that story because there is seemingly going to be an appeal. At least,

that's the words that we hear

from Roman as he walked out of the court case. Jake, maybe I'll kind of just start with you.

What's your first reaction about the verdict and where we have landed at the end of the Roman

storm case? Well, so my first instinctual reaction is to be pretty devastated by the news that Roman was convicted on literally any account whatsoever.

I do not think that any defy developer in the United States who did what Roman was accused of doing and what the government showed that he did in court, which was basically nothing more than build a non-custodial protocol that bad guys happened to use

without his control and without his ability to slap them. It's insane to me that someone who has

done that would be prosecuted and potentially incarcerated by the government. So my initial

reaction is just to be sad for the state of affairs and sad for Defi. I will say that this is a

really good outcome for Roman himself

individually. So he was charged with three different counts, money laundering, sanctions,

violations, and Section 1960 operating an unlicensed money transmitting business. The jury was

hung on the first two of those charges. And those were, frankly, the two

much more serious charges from the perspective of what Roman's sentence could be. And it's a great

victory that the government was not able to prove its burden on both of those counts. So a great

victory for Roman that he does not have a conviction on those two counts.

What it means is instead of him facing potentially decades in prison, his statutory maximum

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