Roger Penrose and Ivette Fuentes: A Bold New Test of Gravity

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 25 November 2025

⏱️ 70 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sir Roger Penrose and Professor Ivette Fuentes analyze the Ron Folman T-cubed experiment and whether the equivalence principle holds in quantum mechanics. SPONSORS: - Thank you Nolah for sponsoring! Click here https://nolahmattress.com/toe and use CODE: TOE to get an extra $50 off your mattress. - I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE SUPPORT: - Support me on Substack: https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe - Support me on Crypto: https://commerce.coinbase.com/checkout/de803625-87d3-4300-ab6d-85d4258834a9 - Support me on PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=XUBHNMFXUX5S4 JOIN MY SUBSTACK (Personal Writings): https://curtjaimungal.substack.com LISTEN ON SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e TIMESTAMPS: - 00:00:00 - The Ron Folman Experiment - 00:08:12 - Quantum Equivalence Principle - 00:15:00 - Gravitational Wavefunction Collapse - 00:25:14 - Active vs. Passive Gravity - 00:33:40 - Bose-Einstein Condensate Tests - 00:44:30 - Do Gravitons Exist? - 00:56:02 - Evidence Before the Big Bang - 01:04:11 - Testing Collapse Models LINKS MENTIONED: - Ivette’s Website: https://ivettefuentes.weebly.com/ - Ivette’s Published Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=W7-xksIAAAAJ&hl=en - Roger’s Published Papers: https://inspirehep.net/authors/993859 - Human Test: How Predictability, Creativity, And The Quantum Mind Will Redefine Life In The Age Of AI [Book]: https://www.amazon.com/-/he/Human-Test-Predictability-Creativity-Redefine/dp/149308920X - The Equivalence Principle: https://www.britannica.com/science/equivalence-principle - Nikita Nekrasov [TOE]: https://youtu.be/PH0CzN5qspI - Exploring The Unification Of Quantum Theory And General Relativity With A Bose-Einstein Condensate [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.04630 - Jacob Barandes & Manolis Kellis [TOE]: https://youtu.be/MTD8xkbiGis - Observation Of The Quantum Equivalence Principle For Matter-Waves [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2502.14535 - Claudia de Rham [TOE]: https://youtu.be/Ve_Mpd6dGv8 - Markus Aspelmeyer’s Published Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=DH7xfEgAAAAJ&hl=en - Hendrik Ulbricht Published Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=6d15M50AAAAJ&hl=en - Ron Folman’s Lecture: https://youtu.be/uVN7zapPtvw - Ivette’s Solo Interview [TOE]: https://youtu.be/YWbjI-QsH2E - Roger’s Solo Interview [TOE]: https://youtu.be/iO03t21xhdk - Cumrun Vafa [TOE]: https://youtu.be/kUHOoMX4Bqw - Ted Jacobson [TOE]: https://youtu.be/3mhctWlXyV8 - Jonathan Oppenheim [TOE]: https://youtu.be/6Z_p3viqW1g - Alexia Lopez’s Published Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=PaPfR4sAAAAJ&hl=en - Neil Turok [TOE]: https://youtu.be/ZUp9x44N3uE - Alexia Lopez’s Lecture: https://youtu.be/-zkGk6EPMC8 - A Big Ring On The Sky [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2402.07591 - The DP Model: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Diosi-Penrose-DP-model-of-gravity-related-wave-function-collapse-a-According-to_fig1_344161033 - Underground Test Of Gravity-Related Wave Function Collapse [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2111.13490 - Curt’s Talk With Roger On IAI: https://youtu.be/VQM0OtxvZ-Y - Ron Folman’s T Cube Experiment: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1908.03879 - Carlo Rovelli [TOE]: https://youtu.be/hF4SAketEHY - Fay Dowker [TOE]: https://youtu.be/PgYHEPCLVas Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Quantum mechanics, people say it's a most wonderful theory and most amazing description of the universe.
0:07.0	Yes, that's true. But it doesn't give you a description of the universe which involves significant mass displacements.
0:15.0	Quantum theory says that any object, even a mountain, can exist in two places simultaneously.
0:22.6	However, you never see this. Why?
0:25.6	Today, I have a huge treat as this was months in the making.
0:29.6	A new experiment which, until today, was in the pre-publishing phase and is now published.
0:35.6	Sir Roger Penrose and Professor Yvette
0:38.1	Fuentes are here to talk about the controversial consequences it has for understanding the
0:42.9	relationship between quantum theory, collapse, and gravity. My name's Kurt Jai Mungal, and on this
0:49.5	channel I interview researchers regarding their theories of reality with rigor and technical depth.
0:55.0	Today, I finally have permission to show you a conversation that spans how Roger sees mass displacements as causing collapse,
1:02.0	the difference between active and passive gravity, and the intricacies of this new Ron Fulman T-Cubed experiment.
1:10.0	We also go over Penrose's speculation about dark matter
1:13.0	and cyclic cosmology. I traveled from Toronto to film live at Oxford University's
1:18.9	Math Institute. I truly hope you enjoy this. I'm joined here with Roger Penrose and Yvette Fentes.
1:26.6	Welcome. Thank you all for coming again.
1:29.0	Thanks. I'm glad to be here.
1:31.7	So there's an experiment that's making the rounds. It's pre-published. Not published yet. Maybe as of this recording is published, but it's called the Ron Folman phase experiment.
1:42.5	You both see it as extremely important. However, there's
1:46.3	disagreement in the field about its interpretation. So before we get to the importance of the experiment,
1:53.0	how about you explain what the experiment is Yvette? And then we'll hear, Roger, why you think it's so
1:58.2	important. Okay. Yes. So it's a very special atom interferometer.
	...

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