Robin DiAngelo: Matt and Chris struggle with their fragility

Decoding the Gurus

Christopher Kavanagh and Matthew Browne

Social Sciences, Science, Leisure, Society & Culture

4.2 • 1.2K Ratings

🗓️ 2 November 2022

⏱️ 188 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Racism is all around. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds white people together. And if you try to deny it, it only makes it stronger. That's Robin DiAngelo's thesis, anyway, and she calls this dark force (and the book that made her famous) White Fragility. You know you've got white fragility if you refuse to accept the truth of white fragility. Also, all white people have it. So that's pretty straightforward at least. How do you fight the curse of whiteness? Well, it's a lifelong journey of 'Doing the Work', but one thing's for sure: it starts with reading books like White Fragility and attending seminars well... like hers.

DiAngelo's been out of the discourse recently, as far as we can tell, busy beavering away on new books like Nice Racism: How Progressive White People Perpetuate Racial Harm and dismantling white supremacy via corporate group therapy sessions. However, in our original show blurb, we promised to cover 'gurus from Jordan Peterson to Robin DiAngelo', so here we are. Now she's no longer this week's hot culture war topic that's getting people (...racists probably) all riled up, it's the perfect time to cross this particular Pokemon off our list. We listened to a lecture she gave in 2018, where she helpfully lays out the key aspects of her theory.

There's so much in store for listeners this week. You'll be able to thrill to the anecdote of how DiAngelo herself was disgustingly racist to a colleague, be shocked as Chris once again references Northern Ireland's colourful history and tries to deflect his people's obvious guilt onto the English, be amazed as Matthew courageously confronts his settler-colonial privilege, and learn the real story of the first African American baseball player to cross the colour line (as told by DiAngelo).

So join the intrepid duo as they embark on this neverending journey to interrogate their whiteness. And maybe - verrrry carefully - try to be just a little bit critical of DiAngelo's arguments without axiomatically proving themselves hopelessly racist. Listen in and judge for yourself!

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0:00.0	You're going to be. Oh, Hello and
0:25.0	the
0:27.0	we're an anthropologist Chris Kavanaugh and a psychologist
0:30.0	Chris Kavanaugh and a psychologist Matthew Brown
0:33.6	listen to the greatest minds the online world has to offer
0:36.4	and we try to understand what they're talking about.
0:38.1	That's all I've got to say Chris so welcome
0:40.3	glad you're here you ready for some decoding?
0:42.8	Yes, I am. It's been a while since we've had a full
0:47.4	decoding episode, so I feel like the old decoding muscles have started to atrophy yeah yeah we're back in the saddle back in the saddle
0:58.0	we've both been watching a lot of it's always sunny in Philadelphia haven't we we've been enjoying it that's how we've been spending our time it's always sunny in Philadelphia haven't we? We've been enjoying it. That's how we've been spending our time. It's been good.
1:05.0	Well, I have not recently because I already finished it like in a long binge before so but the way I consume that kind of content is also different from you my in that I
1:20.0	You listen to it a four-time speedy? No, I do not, but it is more that, because I'm often doing all of things while I'm listening,
1:29.0	or like commuting or that kind of thing, in some way it's like an audio drama for me because you say watching
1:36.2	but it's listening. You know you haven't really consumed it. You've been missing out because
1:41.1	the visuals are important Chris they're very important just the
1:44.8	expressions on Dennis's face alone mean that you've only really appreciated half the show but you know
1:51.2	you do what you can you're a multit multitasker. I know that. You're a busy man.
1:54.7	That's right. So, so yes, but it is a very enjoyable show and we are going to have a chat about it with David Pizarro from Very Bad Wizards so something for people to
2:07.7	randomly look forward to who might be also fans of that show. But you know Matt to limber up our decoding muscles I thought
2:19.2	we you know we sometimes talk about things that have occurred in the guru space and there's a couple of events that seem notable
2:28.8	The news very recently for example is that Elon Musk has appeared to finalize or be in the
	...

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