Professor Robert Savolsky, you were once asked, what was the most powerful moment that you've had when you were investigating primates?

And you recounted the tale of Benjamin. So I'd like you to retell that for our audience and also explain its significance to you, please.

Well, Benjamin, just as orientation for more than 30 years, I spent my summers studying a population of wild baboons in a national park in East Africa, going back to the same animals each year, and, you know, beginning to feel fairly connected to them after a while, amid having the usual primatologist rules of, like, don't interact and don't interfere and that kind of thing.

There was one baboon who I was very, very fond of, named Benjamin, who was a bit of a bozo, might be the most

appropriate way of stating it.

And like if there were, you know, stinging ants to step on, he was going to step on it

every time.

If there was a bunch of like thorns in the bushes, he was the one who

was going to stumble into it, but very fond of him. And I was doing an observational sample on him one day

where you sit there and you write down everything that he does for 30 minutes. And he proceeded to

spend the whole time asleep. This was the middle of the day, and he was under a bush and fell asleep.

So I sat there for these riveting 30 minutes, and by the time that was over, and he happened to wake up then, we discovered all the other baboons had left us.

All the other baboons were just off foraging and they were nowhere to be seen.

And he sort of looked around and freaked out. And I got up on top of my Jeep and binoculars and

looked around and finally spotted them on like some distant hill. And there was a moment where

he then looked at me and projecting and anthropomorphizing all of that,

but he knew that I knew where they were. And I got back in the Jeep and drove very slowly while he

sort of trod alongside and we found the other baboons. And that was just like a moment of the sense of connection like nothing I had ever felt before.

Is that allowed?

Because you sensed that he knew what you were thinking and he sensed that you had this knowledge and you're not allowed to intervene, but you're like, I want to help this guy.

Yeah, it's very, it's very squishy because, you know, to some extent, you know, you're not a fly on the wall.

You're a close relative in lots of ways.

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