Rob Spekkens: Why the Quantum Wave Function Is Not Real

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 2 February 2026

⏱️ 163 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Robert Spekkens of the Perimeter Institute on quantum foundations. In 2004 he built a classical toy theory where maximum knowledge is always incomplete, and out popped no-cloning, teleportation, and interference effects Feynman deemed impossible classically. He compares our situation to hieroglyphs before Champollion: a category mistake treating quantum states as descriptions of reality when they describe knowledge of it. I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE SUPPORT: - Substack: https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe - Crypto: https://commerce.coinbase.com/checkout/de803625-87d3-4300-ab6d-85d4258834a9 - PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=XUBHNMFXUX5S4 - Substack (writings): https://curtjaimungal.substack.com - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e TIMESTAMPS: - 00:00:00 - Defining Quantum Innovation - 00:06:40 - Realism vs. Empiricism - 00:12:12 - Leibnizian Methodological Principle - 00:23:40 - Causal Explanations of Correlations - 00:30:24 - Epistemic Quantum States - 00:41:00 - Foil Theory Methodology - 00:54:00 - Causal Influence vs. Signaling - 01:07:27 - Thermodynamics and Ignorance - 01:15:00 - Conceptual Understanding in Physics - 01:21:00 - Philosophy of Physics Utility - 01:30:00 - Speckins' Toy Theory Origins - 01:40:13 - Perimeter Institute's Ambitious DNA - 01:52:00 - PBR Theorem Implications - 02:05:40 - Ontic Separability Assumptions - 02:17:40 - Hieroglyphs and Category Mistakes - 02:29:00 - Revolutionizing Modern Physics - 02:37:20 - Unscrambling Causation and Inference LINKS: - https://www.rwspekkens.com - https://pirsa.org/speaker/Robert-Spekkens - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2507.01122 - https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0401052 - https://arxiv.org/abs/0706.2661 - https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0406166 - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2207.11779 - https://amazon.com/dp/1108066488?tag=toe08-20 - https://www.jstor.org/stable/687269 - https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-copenhagen/ - https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-indiscernible/ - https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf - https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spacetime-holearg/ - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/mathematics/hidden-variable-theory - https://www.nature.com/articles/299802a0 - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2011.01286 - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02058098 - https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.07161 - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/maxwells-equation - https://www.einstein-online.info/en/spotlight/equivalence_principle/ - https://perimeterinstitute.ca/ - https://amazon.com/dp/9810241054?tag=toe08-20 - https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.47.777 - https://arxiv.org/abs/1111.3328 - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/rosetta-stone-hieroglyphs-champollion-decipherment-egypt-180980834/ - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160932707000282 - https://youtu.be/gEK4-XtMwro - https://youtu.be/YWbjI-QsH2E - https://youtu.be/fU1bs5o3nss - https://youtu.be/NKOd8imBa2s - https://youtu.be/6I2OhmVWLMs - https://youtu.be/Tghl6aS5A3M - https://youtu.be/HIoviZe14pY - https://youtu.be/bprxrGaf0Os - https://youtu.be/4MjNuJK5RzM - https://youtu.be/c8iFtaltX-s - https://youtu.be/9AoRxtYZrZo - https://youtu.be/uOKOodQXjhc - https://youtu.be/3mhctWlXyV8 - https://youtu.be/gsSJPLX-BTA - https://youtu.be/FFW14zSYiFY - https://youtu.be/HhWWlJFwTqs Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Most of my best ideas don't happen during interviews. They come spontaneously, maybe in the
0:05.8	shower or while I'm walking, and until Plaud, I kept losing them because by the time I write it
0:11.5	down, half of it's gone. I've tried voice capture before, like Google Home and just cuts me off
0:16.4	in the middle of a thought, and I don't know about you, but my ideas don't come in these 10-second short soundbites.
0:22.2	They're ponderous, they wind, they're often five minutes long, and Apple notes, Google Keep,
0:27.5	the transcription is quite horrible, and you even have to do multiple taps to get to it.
0:31.9	Plod lets me talk for as long as I want to. There's no interruptions, it's accurate capture,
0:37.0	and it organizes everything
0:38.2	into clear summaries, key takeaways, and action items. I can even come back later and say,
0:42.9	okay, what was that thread that I was talking about about consciousness and information? My personal
0:47.3	workflow is that I have their auto flow feature enabled, and it sends me an email whenever I take a note.
0:52.3	I have the note pin S for the shower,
0:54.9	and then I carry this one around me in the apartment,
0:57.4	and I love them both very much, especially this one.
1:01.6	The fact that I can just press it,
1:03.2	and it turns on instantly and starts recording without a delay,
1:06.4	is an extremely underrated feature.
1:08.7	And it's battery.
1:09.5	I haven't had to charge this since I received it.
1:12.1	Over one and a half million people use plot around the world.
1:15.1	If your work depends on conversations or the ideas that come after them, it's worth
1:19.4	checking out.
	...

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