Greetings, dear listeners. This is another exciting episode of the Remnant Podcast.

Brought to you by the Dispatch and Dispatch Media, go to the Dispatch.com to get all of our

wares including up to the minute coverage of everything Corona and COVID and the

economic stimulus stuff and all the rest. And today's episode is brought to you by

Bluevine. We'll talk more about that in a little bit. So this is where I'm in the

podcast studio at the Dispatch offices and I've made all sorts of youngins risk their lives

to come in and do this. I feel very guilty about it. And we've been wanting to do this podcast

for several months now. I met today's guest. We were both asked to speak at a VMI conference.

That's the Virginia Military Academy Institute. And she gave a great talk. It was really interesting.

And there's a lot of weird overlap between some of her stuff and some of my stuff. And we

just kept kicking the can for various and some reasons. And then we had a plague. So it made

things even more complicated. So she is doing this by remote. I can see here, but you can't.

And she is the she I'm referring to is Michelle Gelfand. And she is the author of

Rulemakers, Rulebreakers, How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World. And you are also

the distinguished professor of psychology at the University of Maryland College Park.

Right? I got that right. Right. Welcome. Nice to finally have you on here. Great to be here.

So we've gotten some feedback from people that they're already hitting

coronavirus fatigue. And I don't mean like from the disease, but from all the talk about it.

But we should at least start with it. And how it went out to start with it. Why don't we start

with actually your argument in your book. And then we can do a couple minutes about the corona

stuff and then see where we go from there. So why don't you just give us the big picture of what

the book is about, what your argument is. And then I will I will deliver searing questions that

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