You're listening to a podcast from the BBC World Service. This is Hard Talk with me, Stephen Sacker.

Thanks for downloading this edition of the program. I do hope you enjoy it. Welcome to Hard Talk on

the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sacker. Almost three years into the Trump presidency and it's

plain that when it comes to national security and foreign

policy, the president has little or no faith in the key institutions of the federal government.

There's no other way to explain his decision to withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria

against the wishes of top officials in the Pentagon and State Department.

Also, no other way to explain the bizarre background to the current impeachment investigation in

Washington, D.C. To put it bluntly, the president was pursuing a strategy towards Ukraine and its

new president, which deeply troubled many of the officials who

became aware of it. So what does all this mean for U.S. foreign policy? Its overseas commitments,

its alliances, and its standing in the world. Well, my guest today is Richard Haas, a former

senior U.S. diplomat who's now president of the Council on

Foreign Relations. President Trump may horrify the foreign policy establishment, but does that

matter to American voters? Well, Richard Haas joins me now from New York City. Welcome to Hard Talk.

Good to be with you. Would you accept that

the killing of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has given a major boost to President Trump when he needs it most?

Well, it's helped him in two ways. In and of itself, it's a good thing. And secondly, he was on the receiving end of a tremendous

criticism from Republicans and Democrats alike for his recent moves vis-a-vis Turkey and Syria.

And for many people, this seemed, I emphasized the word seem, to negate or offset that.

Well, why are you putting your quote marks around the word seemed? Because there is no question

that it was a long-term American objective to get al-Baghdadi. They got him and they got him

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