There is this incredible intellectual core to Christianity that actually really makes sense.

It makes sense of us, our experience, it makes sense of the universe, it makes sense of history,

it makes sense philosophically, biologically, ethically.

And so I found actually what we have in the Christian tradition is not something you just have to kind of will yourself into believing against all the

odds, but we have something that actually makes sense, not only of us, but the world we live in.

I remember hearing an interview with Richard Dawkins, maybe the world's most famous

current proponent of Neo-Darwinian evolution. And he was asked, what kind of culture would

you like to live in? Of all the cultures in the world, you know, the Asian culture, the Buddhist

culture, the Muslim culture. And he said, oh, hands down, a Christian culture, even talked about

wearing the label of a cultural Christian, even though

he does not believe in the claims of Christianity and the Bible.

You had an experience with Richard as well, and you talk about it in your book.

Share that with us.

Yes, the very first time I had a conversation with Richard Dawkins, who, as you say,

is probably the most famous atheist on the planet in many ways, was back in 2008, and he'd just had a fantastic debate at Oxford

University with John Lennox, who's a well-known professor of science and mathematics, wonderful

guy, a Christian thinker, and I got to kind of go to the after-debate party at a local Oxford

college. But interestingly, one of the most significant parts that then kind of went viral,

actually, as an audio clip, was where I asked him about this question of morality and how as

an atheist he grounds his beliefs in right and wrong. And the particular issue I raised was this, and I'll just

give you verbatim how the conversation went between us, Kurt. I said to Richard, but if we'd evolved

into a society where rape was considered fine, would that mean that rape is fine? And he said,

...