The Darwinian explanation so beautifully does away with the need for any kind of top-down design.

God wanted a universe that was going to follow these elegant mathematical laws, which by the

ways one of those signposts that I see of an intelligence behind the universe. You cannot have a God who

does miracles on the one hand and yet who has this sort of let's let the laws of physics play themselves

out without interference on the other. You're having it both ways when you believe in miracles. I think I can have it both ways.

You're listening to unbelievable with Justin Browley.

Well what a show we have for you today. This has been in the works for some time Richard Dawkins and Francis Collins joining me

Justin Browley today as we launch the big conversation season four produced in partnership with John Templeton Foundation.

Really looking forward to bringing you this one but I'm also on a bit of a high after last weekend's conference

what an absolute joy to me. So many unbelievable listeners from all over the world who came along to the British Library in London in person for the conference

and the thousand plus people who joined us online as well. So good to see so many people here all the great questions that came through on the day.

So much great response to the sessions that we had and of course our big conversation live event as well.

Brian got in touch to say I couldn't attend all the sessions but the first and second with Glenn's Gryvener and Alistair McGrath were certainly well worth coming along for online.

The highlight for me though was the big conversation within McGill Christian Sharon Dirick's. This was everything I'd hoped it would be.

Brilliant informed and above all respectful getting McGill Christ into the conversation was absolutely inspired.

And in all of your ability just into compare and maintain with trademark respectful sympathetic styles between all guests including random members of the public.

And you say you're looking forward to the digital download of the conference. Thank you Brian for getting in touch.

Brian among many people have expressed their thanks for this year's conference. Yes, the digital download is coming to all those who booked the premium ticket for the conference.

If you didn't book that ticket or just want to catch up and you weren't able to be part of the conference will be alerting you very soon as soon as it's available to purchase as well.

And we'll be recapping the conference material here on the show in a few weeks time too.

But that in McGill Christian Sharon Dirick's big conversation will be released of course to everyone as episode three of our big conversation series in about a month's time.

But we've another exciting additional live big conversation that you can be part of and book yourself in for right now.

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