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Music Learn more at PMI.com slash progress. Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the Spectator's Daily Politics Podcast.

I'm Oscar Edmondson and I'm joined today by James Heel and Richard Johnson, who is a senior lecturer at Queen Mary University.

Now, James, you write a fascinating piece in the magazine this week

about how Kier-Starma is facing a three-pronged attack from the left

with the Greens, the Gaza Independence, and this new, as yet entitled Jeremy Corbyn Party.

Why are Labour so worried, and who poses the greatest threat?

Right now, it's too early to tell in terms of what the threat from the left is going to be, partly because the left just needs to get its act together, and anyone who's had the pleasure or misfortune of attending CLP meetings over the years will know how difficult the left can be to get organised. Disorganised labour seems to very much the theme of it. But look, I mean, there is clearly a concern in terms of how labour is approaching different issues. You took, for instance, at the Middle East, one concern is about those number of high-profile Labour ministers who potentially use their seats to what it might call Gaza independence at the next election, people like Shabana Mahmood, where streeting, etc, that clearly plays on their minds. But the question is a moment, can all that sort of political energy, and as I reflect in the piece, you know, there's sort of a think about a fifth of people might vote for a Corby-led party or a third could go green, et cetera. Can they make the most of all that political opportunity, energy that's out there and try and exploit it? Because right now, there is very little is very little in the way of formal structure to take advantage of it. Now, there are those who say, actually, we don't need a formal party. You can look, for instance, this week, Jeremy Corbyn helped launch a rise, which is a local party in London, which is fronted by someone he's worked with before. And so maybe that's going to be the future, which you have this sort of growth of independence across the country, places like Neum, places like Tower Hamlets, where they've got the Aspire Party. And maybe that is what a kind of sort of left-wing, pro-Palestine party could look like. But my sense and my argument is that really, if you want to cut through at a national level and kind of achieve the same success as reformers had, you will need to sort of get the balance right between the kind of democratic traditions

and culture of the left while also ensuring you have a strong leader to make yourself

prominent in public debates and champion that kind of eco-socialist, eco-populous view that

people like Zach Plansky and Jeremy Corbyn think is so important to the future of the country.

I mean, there's all that polling out that suggests that a organized party of the left could steal a really significant chunk of the Labour vote. But of course, the operative word there is organized. Yeah. Do you think that Jeremy Corbyn, all the Greens, for that matter, have it in them? I'm quite bearish on this point in that Jeremy Corbyn has been talking about this,

as this is publicly for five years. And you think, look where reform have achieved where they

were five years ago, more than, and look what they are now, you know, the next government

to waiting according to some commentators. And I suppose the crucial point for the left is,

look, if you think that reform would pose an existential threat to the nation, there is that need for urgency. Some of them talk, for instance, about the popular front in France, a new popular front there. And that was, of course, was assembled in a matter of weeks and months rather than years. And so the key thing, of course, is that you need to stand candidates, you need name recognition. And you need to, just frankly organize yourself. I mean, I've heard anecdotal stories for instance of you know it comes to the birmingham elections next may

that they're council election there you know candidates from the same slate of all wants to

stand in the same ward but of course that's not how you win elections by splitting the vote

...