Retribution | Interview: Jonathan Karl and Declan Garvey

The Dispatch Podcast

The Dispatch

News, Politics

4.6 • 3.3K Ratings

🗓️ 27 October 2025

⏱️ 76 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Steve Hayes interviews Jonathan Karl and our very own executive editor, Declan Garvey, about Karl's new book Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America, which delves into Donald Trump’s 2024 political campaign. The three discuss insights from Steve Bannon’s prison experience, the decisions behind ending President Joe Biden’s campaign, and the authenticity crisis in modern politics. The Agenda:—The process of writing Retribution and key interviews—Bannon prison experiment—The role of Trump and pardons in the prison system—Karl’s confrontation with Trump on hate speech—Pizza and subs with Vice President Harris—Trump’s Influence and changes in America—The Democrats' struggles with authenticity Show Notes:—Read an excerpt of Retribution here—Commander in Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump The Dispatch Podcast is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch’s offerings—including access to all of our articles, members-only newsletters, and bonus podcast episodes—click here. If you’d like to remove all ads from your podcast experience, consider becoming a premium Dispatch member by clicking here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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1:15.7	Welcome to the Dispatch podcast.
1:17.1	I'm Steve Hayes.
1:23.7	We have a special interview this week with two journalists behind a widely anticipated book that is out tomorrow. This deeply reported work examines in great detail the consequential 2024 presidential election and the beginning of Donald Trump's second term.
1:33.0	I am also joined by the dispatches executive editor, Declan Garvey, who is, oddly enough, not joining me in my capacity as the interviewer, but alongside John as an interviewee to be subjected
1:47.5	to my very aggressive, some might say, withering questioning. Why is that? I'll let them tell us.
1:54.8	I hope you enjoy the conversation. John, Declan, welcome. John, can you please explain how you came to be associated with one Declan Garvey?
2:04.0	Yeah, this is a sordid tale, but it is true. Declan, Declan actually worked with me on my last book, Tired of winning.
2:15.3	And when I decided I was going to submit myself to this once again
2:20.4	and to write another book about our current political world, I reached out to Declan and I said,
	...

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