One of the aspects that's often shortchanged in retirement planning is the internal work necessary to adjusting from being a saver to being a spender.

Boy, ain't that the truth? It's all in our heads, baby. Welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have the confidence

to lean in and rock retirement. Overcoming frugality and doing the mental work to give yourself

permission to use resources to create a great life, so you don't die with too much money,

is a major crisis for many people in retirement, especially those that by good fortune and hard work, et cetera, have the

means to do so. And today, we're going to revisit a conversation we had with Dr. Daniel

Crosby on overcoming frugality.

We're going to talk about how to gain confidence in the midst of uncertainty,

because there's always reasons to not spend money and ways that we can overcome frugality

in order to lean into the kind of life we want to create.

So let's dive in with Dr. Daniel Crosby.

So we're here at Daniel Crosby, Chief Behavioral Officer at Orion Advisory Services.

Daniel, how are you? Great. Great to be here, Roger. I appreciate you hanging out with me on this 10th anniversary month, which is sort of insane to think about.

Ten years thinking about one subject is been one of the best things I've ever done, not just professionally, but personally, of focus.

Today, I wanted to explore with you one of the threads that I've found along the way that I've been pulling in trying to find frameworks to help people empower themselves.

So we think of retirement crisis as people not having enough for retirement, which is a huge crisis.

That is the main crisis.

Yeah. It really is. But there's also another crisis, which is sort of feels uncomfortable to talk about,

but it's a crisis of people that have been successful either through, well, a combination of effort,

effort and serendipity and luck and all that, of accumulating enough wealth. And when you become a really good accumulator and you've done it for decades, it has,

I would imagine, a self-fulfilling loop of affirmation and comfort, etc.

And I've discovered a lot of these people have a hard time harvesting and using, in this case, their financial

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