Hey folks and welcome to typology show in which we explore the mystery of the human personality through the lens of the any gram my name is Anthony Skinner on the producer of the show we're really happy that you've joined us today as is our custom in December we replace some fan faves and today we have a big time fan fave in Lisa Joe Baker former attorney best selling author any a gram too we get to

under the hood with twos today y'all so if you are to or if you love someone who is a to or if you work with someone who is a to this is for you anyway this is a good one folks a strap in and enjoy that's it for me Anthony Skinner and now here's the host of our show in cron

Lisa Joe Baker welcome to typology man I cannot overstate how excited I am to be here today oh well I have been looking forward to this conversation because I love any a gram twos you do you

I know start with that with a verbal affirmation and relational care no but I really I mean that sincerely I um you know any a gram twos for me when they're at their best expression of themselves really

radiate of the unconditional altruistic love of God they just sort of signal that out into the world in a way that no other number can and so I've had a number of twos in my life a different

moments who have left such a profoundly positive mark on me that's such a beautiful way to put it my goodness I feel all warm and cozy and my too hard is just like eating that up

thank you have you put on your softy clothes and you're going to get a little little scented candle and you're all ready to spend the afternoon

I'm cozy your words have just got me cozy right from the get go so you describe yourself as a solid any a gram to who is learning to navigate the waters of midlife as a born and groomed people pleaser

you go yes reluctant reluctant I would add it's taken me years to make peace with that because I think twos are always described as the servant or the helper and those labels have never naturally felt like a good fit for me

because when I listen to interviews with other twos who talk about how they love being behind the scenes or helping out with things or helping other people

I don't feel that way I think I've often felt like my tunis enslaves me to other people and I don't like that about myself but I listened to an episode that you had with the amazing Beatrice Chessna

and she used the word for two as the befriender and it completely shifted how I understood my tunis in a very positive way so like a belated thank you to both her and you for that

and of course I have her book like sitting next to me that I immediately wanted to go that good good good so what was it about that that shifted your whole perspective from a negative to a positive about being an any a gram to

I think well gosh we only have an hour so I just wanted to address this I think for me particularly because I really do believe a lot of my two qualities were shaped by my childhood relationship with my dad

and I took a lot of notes during her podcast where she talks like how the big fear for two is will you take care of me and I have to take care of you first to make sure you'll take care of me and that laid out massively throughout my childhood

so I think as an as an adult I resent that I resent that I feel like I'm held emotionally hostage by other people's feelings and I didn't want to identify myself with what I thought as the weaker parts of my tunis being the service

right because serving can have negative connotations but when she used the word to be friend to be a be friend or I realized yes like my when I view my tunis in a positive light that desire you know that was what Jesus was called friend

that was like big title friend of sinners that desire to deeply connect with other people in an altruistic format right in a healthy to form that's a positive like that's something I am interested in actually saying yes that's one of my core qualities

so it sounds like without wanting to dive too deep into it but that you know some early trauma really triggered sort of a defended stance against the whole the to's need to be needed

and there need to feel indispensable in the lives of others if that sounds right and and that because that was a relationship you had with a parent and you just didn't want to keep playing that record

right and I think you know I I am trying to play it cool and interviews and such a fan girl viewers but I am not a cool person so I'm not sure how well I will succeed but I read right when it came out your memoir Jesus my father the CIA and me

and how you talk about your relationship in that family and actually I was thinking of you particularly last night because my daughter who's in third grade now was at her strings performance and play cello and I thought of you playing first chair on your trumpet and the night you walked home in the rain without having had either of your parents attend the performance

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