Welcome to Food. I'm Kate Bitman. Thanks for listening. If you want more of us

we're online at bitman project.com. Tons of recipes, every single one of which is accessible to paid subscribers, with a more limited

amount available to free subscribers, plus essays, reporting, and opinions about all things

food. That's Bitman project.com. Hi folks, vanilla and chocolate, two of the most beloved flavors in the world have been linked since the beginning. Both products, the

vanilla bean and the cacao pod, originated in Mexico thousands of years ago, where

Aztecs use vanilla to make the bitter cocoa powder in their sacred chocolate drink more

palatable. Today, these two flavors in both natural and artificial forms dominate our dessert

options from ice cream scoops to the sweet snacks and grocery

aisles. But most of the producers have both ruthlessly extract wealth from communities

in the global south and come with all of the environmental and social problems with a system that leaves

smallholder farmers in poverty.

How can we reconcile our love of these essential flavors with their problematic production.

Can we hold large companies accountable?

And is it possible to produce vanilla and chocolate in a different and better way?

In this comprehensive episode of Food Prince what you're eating. Our friend, partner, and

contributor, Jerusalem, Jourusha Kleemper explores all of these questions. Along with special guests Jennifer Badges, from Hylala Vanilla, Tim McCollum

from Beyond Good Chocolate and Vanilla, and Ali Brodney from Corporate Accountability Lab.

Listen to what you're eating wherever you get your podcasts.

We are happy to have on the show today.

Matt Goulding and Renee Red Zeppy.

Renee, of course, is the chef of the world famous Noma,

probably the best restaurant in the world for the last 20 years and among the best it is to the early 21st century

...