Four years ago, a string of killings of unarmed African Americans by police gave rise to the Black Lives Matter movement and an explosion of related organizing.

Among the figures to emerge from these movements was a school administrator, always clad in a trademark blue vest,

Doreay McKesson.

He came to Washington this week to speak at the Atlantic Festival, and we sat down with him to ask,

what does organizing mean to him?

And what would it mean to succeed?

This is Radio Atlantic. The Before we dive into the conversation a heads up we tape this interview with

Dury McKesson backstage at the Atlantic Festival, our showcase of thinkers and leaders,

which has taken over several blocks of downtown

Washington, D.C. this week.

We're not in the studio, and you're likely to hear that on the track.

McKesson has just written a memoir called On the Other Side of Freedom,

The Case for Hope. After our conversation, we'll share a few more moments from the festival.

Now, on to the interview. Hi, I'm Matt Thompson, Executive Editor of The Atlantic. With me, I am delighted to say is the Atlantic's inestimable senior

editor Jillian White. Hello Jillian. Thank you so much for joining us. With us

also as our guest this week on Radio Atlantic is Dorei McKesson.

Dorei, a well-known activist host of Pod Save the People and his book on the other side of

freedom is now out in bookstores.

Whoop, whoop, whoop.

Dore, a lot of this book, I was expecting a memoir.

And there's a little bit of memoir in there, but a lot of this book is about your organizing philosophy.

What you've learned about activism, how it works, organizing communities.

...