Relief Society Secret Polygamy & Joseph Smith's Character - John Turner Pt. 30 | Ep. 2110
Mormon Stories Podcast
Dr. John Dehlin
4.5 • 5.7K Ratings
🗓️ 6 February 2026
⏱️ 117 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Welcome to Episode 30 of our series The Joseph Smith Podcast with Dr. John Turner where we discuss chapters from his new book “Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.”
In this episode, we dive further into Chapter 24 (“Upper Rooms”) from John Turner’s work and unpack the origins of the LDS Relief Society in May of 1842 –right in the middle of Joseph Smith’s secret practice of polygamy. We explore whether the Relief Society was meant to empower women, function as a stepping stone to priesthood-like authority, or help manage rumors and moral fallout from Nauvoo’s growing scandals.
From Emma Smith’s complicated position, to whispered accusations, to the infamous “Happiness Letter,” this conversation traces how secrecy, power, and polygamy collide –and what it all says about Joseph Smith’s character. We also look at whistleblowers, public denials, internal investigations (or lack thereof), and how victims and critics were treated when scandals became impossible to contain.
This is part Mormon history, part true crime, and part moral reckoning –with big questions about leadership, secrecy, and accountability.
Please purchase the book here.
To support this series please donate here. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon stories podcast and the Joseph Smith podcast. |
| 0:05.0 | I'm your host, John DeLinn. It's February 4th, 2026. And today we are on our third, |
| 0:12.8 | third, count it third episode, just for one chapter in this amazing book. The book is Joseph Smith, |
| 0:20.7 | The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet by |
| 0:23.3 | John G. Turner. John is with us today. Hey, John Turner. Hi, John DeLine. Glad to be back. Likewise, |
| 0:29.4 | it's been a little bit. The chapter that we're covering today is chapter 24 called Upper Rooms. |
| 0:34.7 | In the past two episodes on this chapter. We talked about what? Did we talk |
| 0:41.0 | about Book of Abraham? And then did we talk about Freemasonry and the Mormon Temple ceremony |
| 0:45.8 | and secrecy? Is that right? That is right. And today, and I just think this really is an important |
| 0:51.8 | chapter, today we are going to be talking about the formation of the Relief Society. |
| 0:58.3 | And my two questions for today is, to what extent was the Mormon Church's Relief Society or its organization for women, partly organized as a way for Joseph Smith to maintain secrecy and or control |
| 1:15.6 | gossip and I would say credible information that was going around Navu about spiritual |
| 1:23.3 | wifery or spiritual marriage or plural wives or polygamy however you want to frame it and then all of |
| 1:31.3 | that i'm going to be just continually wondering about what this chapter tells us if anything about |
| 1:37.9 | joseph smith's character but john turner how do you want to introduce today's episode? |
| 1:59.7 | So I would start with the formation of the Relief Society, which in, you know, it's in many ways sort of a charming story at the outset. |
| 2:04.0 | This is the middle of May of 1842. |
| 2:26.7 | And the original genesis of what becomes the Relief Society is women in Navu joining together to provide clothing, to sew clothing for men who are working on the temple. |
| 2:49.2 | People like Sarah Kimball and Eliza R. Snow, they basically are following the example of women across the country who are forming sewing societies, which isn't just a knitting circle, it's charitable, and other charitable and benevolent groups. |
| 2:57.3 | And they want to have a group like that in Nauvoo, and in particular to help the poor, |
| 3:02.6 | and then also to support work on the temple. |
| 3:10.6 | And so the women of their own accord, you know, organize themselves. |
... |
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