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Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

“Reimagining Schooling” with Finnish education icon Prof. Pasi Sahlberg

Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Josh Szeps

Comedy Interviews, Self-improvement, Society & Culture, Education, Comedy

4.6863 Ratings

🗓️ 21 April 2025

⏱️ 110 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What's the purpose of school? Why do we run schools the way we do? How might we reinvent education in an era of artificial intelligence and ADHD?

Professor Pasi Sahlberg is one of the world's leading education experts. He ran Finland’s Ministry of Education and Culture, moved to Washington DC to advise the World Bank on education, and was a visiting professor at Harvard University. His award-winning book is "Finnish Lessons: What can the world learn from educational change in Finland?"

Pasi is now a professor at the University of Melbourne. He sat down with Josh to discuss radical ideas in teaching, learning, play, discipline, devices, and how to view school from the perspective of a child.

Watch this conversation on YouTube. And you’re missing out on our best ad-free content if you haven’t popped over to the Uncomfy Convos Substack page.

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http://tiktok.com/@uncomfyconversations

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Gahey, humans.

0:03.9

Welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas.

0:06.6

Here's a dangerous idea for you.

0:08.2

What if we are educating children all wrong?

0:12.4

President Trump has lately been floating the idea of abolishing the Department of Education

0:17.6

in the United States.

0:19.7

And indeed, in the US and many countries, test

0:23.0

scores are either stagnant or they're going backwards. Boys in particular are falling behind.

0:27.7

There are more and more attention deficit issues in the classroom. We seem to be testing a lot

0:33.7

and not necessarily going anywhere. Today's guest has a completely revolutionary idea

0:38.7

about how we should be educating children. He's from Finland, which as you may know, is the

0:43.8

world's best country when it comes to student test scores. And it largely got there by not testing

0:49.5

children relentlessly and not focusing so narrowly on academic achievement, but by trying to think about

0:55.3

what school is like from the perspective of the child. When you think about it, the way that we

1:02.5

arrange schools in most of the Western world is inherited from a kind of industrial revolution

1:09.7

era when everybody went to work in factories

1:11.9

and we started funneling children, the ones who could afford it at least, into classrooms

1:16.2

that looked and behaved and smelled a little bit like factories. And we churned out these

1:21.0

widgets called children to become productive workers for essentially an industrial economy.

1:27.4

We now live in an information economy. We now live in an information

1:29.0

economy. We now live in a world that's a lot more complicated where the careers that

1:33.7

children are going to have are going to be a lot more uncertain and require a lot more nimbleness.

...

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