Hey, this is Ari. Welcome to the Energy Blueprint Podcast. In this episode, I'm speaking with Tom Kerber, who is the founder of a company called Sun Power LED, which makes a number of really interesting

devices for photo biomodulation for red and your infrared light therapy.

And I saw a presentation that Tom gave at the London conference that happened recently

for photo biomodulation.

That's another term for how light affects biology

and generally is hugely overlapping with red and near infrared light therapy, though is technically more expansive than that.

So there was a big conference in London recently, and Tom, who I'd never heard of before, did a presentation there that was uniquely

exciting for me. And the reason why is that he, with his extensive background, not only in the

engineering side of devices, but also for testing these types of devices.

He utilized that knowledge to basically do a series of a long-running, I think, series of

experiments on the penetration depth of different types of devices, lasers, LED devices,

different wavelengths, red near-infrared wavelengths.

And this is a hugely important area in the overall field of photo biomodulation because

there's a whole sort of mess of unknowns and very contentious stuff that many people have different perspectives on.

And the real problem with it is that we just don't have really good data on penetration depth

of different types of light, different irradiances or intensity, sort of power output of the light.

There's other factors that go into this as well, as far as beam angle and the degree to which the light is collimated,

like in the context of lasers versus LEDs, the way that different light beams can potentially

overlap with one another, the degree to which different wavelengths of light penetrate the tissue

to different depths.

You know, there's really all of these sort of question marks that just looking at the body

of evidence, we don't really have great

...